Full Avenger Rebuild

[jethro]

I have put up a few posts every now and then trying to get an idea of what to do to my 1976 Avenger with a 1600 engine. i have decided to try to get a bit more power out of it and am looking at getting it rebuilt to be a 1800 or close to it as i think later hunters came out with a 1725 under the hood?? but i have got to thinking after engine being rebuilt what would be the best carb set up? Electric fuel pump? upgrading water pump? oil cycle? and do i take out the 4 speed (which is a lot of fun) for a 5? i have finally got a few dollars under me and the body is soon being cleaned up and going to look perfect underneath and outside so i am looking and getting what i need to put the engine in when it returns from panel beaters.. also somewhere to get a new wiring loom made as last owner destroyed original trying to fit alarm and central locking (which never worked since ive owned it) would be a great help if someone could point me in the right direction as this is my first Hillman but not the last.. Thanks

[Scarlet]

Hi ,if you are hoping to increase the capacity to around 1800 using Hunter bits, the engines are totally different and nothing will fit.
The cheapest and easiest carb set up is to find a set of factory twin Stromberg, they come up for sale occasionally, you will also need the twin carb exhaust manifold so it fits, but it is almost never included in the sale or buy extractors.
If you are just building a fast road engine the standard fuel oil and water pumps in good condition are just fine
Try Horopito motors for a good second hand wiring loom.

[JoKer]

all good questions ;P

yea I day dreamed about Hunter larger capacity motors but an early thread on here somewhere will discourage that sort of thought

I 'think' RIchard and I have a couple of the higher performing cars here his being 1500 and mine 1600 near 100 hp (ok mine is 89hp at the rear hubs)

Dellorto's are ever so slightly better than Webers

Cam : make good power but not very 'streetable' needs to be on song & no puff down low

I do use a electric fuel pump, only because it came with the setup (ex stock-car) is a Subaru 3psi unit so I was told

no real reason, other than the fuel pumps are a known weak point iirc & crack / fail on the armature or housing

head choice is crucial I think you want to try & find a High compression 1500 with SC (?) stamped on it near the Thermostat housing, twin springs are not necessary but yes 'wanted'

bit of porting & I recall the sellers list for my setup even mentioning "knife edged" butterflys on the carbs (these are now on my Alpine) for airflow

twin chain timing (you can convert from single with the right covers) balanced crank, I think round it off

I'm not an expert & I didt assemble mine but I did assist and we did most in my back yard then went to a 'tuner' for final setup & checks, proper filters for airflow too, none of these trumpets & socks or foam filters to look pretty

dont think any of us use electric water pumps but not a bad idea

an Automatic Radiator (if you're looking to appear or stay as original as possible) is thicker for better cooling / capacity, could utilise the trans cooler loop for oil cooling if you go that way

ignition : my setup came with an optical unit / "Hall - effect" i think they call it which removes points / no moving parts or wear & tear

I bet I have missed things or made a wild claim but I hope someone with actual knowledge will pop in & either back up or correct me

[old white 73]

Why only stop at 1800cc, go mad & aim for the whole 2000cc's.

At least thats where i wish i was already.........
but the right crank still eludes me, almost desperate enough to buy a whole engine/vehicle to get it if the price is right, new info has me now chasing toyotas 3t crank as well

[avenga]

I 'think' RIchard and I have a couple of the higher performing cars here his being 1500 and mine 1600 near 100 hp (ok mine is 89hp at the rear hubs)

Dellorto's are ever so slightly better than Webers

Cam : make good power but not very 'streetable' needs to be on song & no puff down low

I do use a electric fuel pump, only because it came with the setup (ex stock-car) is a Subaru 3psi unit so I was told

no real reason, other than the fuel pumps are a known weak point iirc & crack / fail on the armature or housing

head choice is crucial I think you want to try & find a High compression 1500 with SC (?) stamped on it near the Thermostat housing, twin springs are not necessary but yes 'wanted'

bit of porting & I recall the sellers list for my setup even mentioning "knife edged" butterflys on the carbs (these are now on my Alpine) for airflow

twin chain timing (you can convert from single with the right covers) balanced crank, I think round it off

I'm not an expert & I didt assemble mine but I did assist and we did most in my back yard then went to a 'tuner' for final setup & checks, proper filters for airflow too, none of these trumpets & socks or foam filters to look pretty

dont think any of us use electric water pumps but not a bad idea

an Automatic Radiator (if you're looking to appear or stay as original as possible) is thicker for better cooling / capacity, could utilise the trans cooler loop for oil cooling if you go that way

ignition : my setup came with an optical unit / "Hall - effect" i think they call it which removes points / no moving parts or wear & tear

I bet I have missed things or made a wild claim but I hope someone with actual knowledge will pop in & either back up or correct me

I wouldn't waste my time with the Hunter engine, it is older technology and it is nowhere near as good as an Avenger engine, just because it has higher displacement doesn't mean it makes more power. It is really still an old Humber engine from the 50's with a couple of extra main bearings. It is a sloper so none of the parts will fit in the upright Avenger engine. The Avenger engine was designed from the ground up to be a replacement for the ageing hunter engine and it is a much better design using what was at the time modern technology. You can easily do a little work on the Avenger engine to get them more powerful than a Hunter engine, my little 1500 Avenger engine is way more powerful than a Hunter 1725.

To follow up on Jokers answers

My 1500 is 89HP at the rear wheels so maybe like 100hp on a hub dyno.

Dellorto's are much better than Webbers due to the better fuel atomisation

Electric fuel pumps are a must for high powered Avenger engine because the stock ones will crack and fail at high RPM.

The "S" head is the one you want but they are rare as, they only came on the '71, '72 TC and the '73 Alpine before they switched to the 1600's which didn't have an "S" head option. My "S" head is from a '73 Alpine and it took me years to track one down. If you can't find an "S" head then any Alpine or twin carb head is your next best option because they all have double valve springs.

Porting an knife edging works well on the Avengers

I don't use an electric water pump but I do use an electric fan because the stock fan will flex and hit the radiator at high RPM

The Automatic radiator also helps cool it. Mine stays heaps cooler since I switched to the automatic radiator. It is triple core instead of only dual.

I also run a 5 speed Ford Sierra Type 9 gearbox in my Avenger.

If you want to go bigger than an Avenger engine then I would recommend a modern Japanese 2000cc twin cam engine. We have had a few members successfully use Nissan SR20 2000cc engines in Avengers.

[JoKer]

import a brazillion 1800?

or a BRM Twin cam head for a Brazzillion bucks?

easy to spend someone elses moneys

[oldschool]

Here's a 1700 Avenger stroker kit on eBay...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Avenger-Tiger-Talbot-Sunbeam-Ti-Crankshaft-Piston-Bearing-1700cc-Stroker-Kit-/291850613341?hash=item43f3a6f25d:g:iFkAAOSw65FXty-a