Avengers for sale around the world...

[oldschool]

Back in the day, if your car didn't go any good you 'put a weber on it' Paddy...their advertising must have been subliminal...haha
Always used to see 2L Cortinas with V6 webers on them, no faster and the mpg went from 25 down to 15...lol
Mini's were another popular weber 'fix' with horrible fuel consumption...but they went better because the porting was so bad you had to pour raw petrol in the motor anyway!
On the other hand some factory equipped weber cars were brilliant.
My Fiat X1/9 with a twin throat downdraught weber is great (apart from the auto choke) plenty of power for a 1500 and can get over 40mpg with a light foot!

[Paddy75]

Yeh when factory fitted the weber twin choke was good. I remember the R18 TS/GTS with the twin cam heart shaped combustion chamber - still pushrodded BTW! They felt like a lot more than 1647cc, I guess when the manifolding etc is optimized for a down draught weber works fine.

Twice now I have been poisoned driving behind a weber'd Escort, every time I see an Escort go by I notice a strong smell of unburnt fuel.
Looking at the SU 3rd edition book there was a HS2 (1.25'') conversion listed for the MK1 Escort 1100/1300, it would be gas to get one of those manifolds to mate an SU or Stromberg to a crossflow, just to see the look on the faces, ''..aye be jays there is no shtink of petrol outta this wan..'' Up with the lid!
I suppose not many side draught expanding choke carbie conversions were fitted to them as a HS2 is a Morris Minor carburettor, not a speed upgrade. Ford tried the whole Variable Venturi thing for a while and we all remember how terrible that effort was, ok so they say just change to the green diaphragm, now its even worse!
By the MK4 Escort they finally admitted it was a PoS and fitted webers or peirburgs instead.
Yep Fords had a drinker rep' at the time and their own brand carburettors were primitive to say the least.

The Stromberg CDS fixed needle sure does deliver the fuel better, more go at higher rpm, but it likes to leak!
The SU seems to be a bit more of a fuel miser and has the habit of flatting at mid rpm which I think might be a duff damper rod/piston thing, if I hold it slightly sideways it just drops in. Maybe this is why the pitmans manual says use 20/50 in the damper and I notice later damper rods had a tapered 'valve' instead of a plain washer on the rod.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-HILLMAN-AVENGER-GT-RARE-CAR-/190861366960?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c703956b0

I see it has the cocaine steering wheel cap too! The Chrysler GT emblem was I think used on all the high performance Chrysler/Chrysler owned cars.

Anyhow I see the GT is popular, 18 bids at ?970, its going to reach ?1,500 at least I'd say. The critics liked the Avenger GT a lot, they didn't like the 'roman shield' hubcaps and the steering wheel so when the 4-door GT was replaced with the GLS a leather trimmed wheel and rostyles on the legs was standard fitment. That and a viscous driven fan which apparently let two more horses outta the stable.

[oldschool]

I think it's impossible to run Escorts economically...probably to do with the way over square motor, has to be over revved to get anywhere...haha
I know fitting bike carbs are popular...even then the jets have to be drilled out...lol
It's very hard to beat the SU and CD carb for economy and for extra power, just fit more of them, like Jag did on the E type.

We got those cocaine wheel centres in NZ too...very rare as they only appeared on the 1971-72 Avenger 1500 TC, a similar spec to the GT but with the strip dash, pod rev counter and single headlights, aka Tiger 1. They had the 'dustbin' hubcaps too.
Have taken the viscous (vicious?) fan off my Alpine and replaced it with an electric one.
That sucka weighed over 1kg...I reckon it used 2hp, not saved 2hp...lol

[Paddy75]

That was the Escorts big problem, you had to rev the nuts off them to get any pull and with a carburettor that was absolutely useless, they drank fuel. Its annoying the way young fellas see old cars being rallied and assume the Escort was the only show in town. I seen a guy (the man who bought the gold 2-door MK1 Avenger) humiliate every Escort on the track even though his Avenger had no LSD or properly stiff suspension, he just drove it on and enjoyed himself. Bowed and tailed out every corner but he just kept correcting it.
A posse of super shiny Escorts afraid of getting a ding just looked sad!

So I took an intrest in helping out a fellow close to home who is prepping a MK2 2-door, oh and I just might be finally getting paid for fixing the ignition!

Once I heard an Escort harrier having a go at the Avenger, ''..sure they were just the same as the Marina..''
Aye right, so I replied, coil sprung all round, hypoid diff so a lower transmission line, high cam engine better torque charactreistics and still can rev.
Nah, with leaf springs and a big high transmission tunnel, the Escort is a Marina with front struts. Rasp!

Anyhow I think I'm not far off getting the 1300 to run at its best, plugs are going a light tan and just a bit of flatting at acceleration in mid rpm I am close to getting it 100%, possibly the damper is slipping as I say.

I was tempted to remove the old fixed fan for an electric setup but after putting a new temp gauge transmitter in I seen a bit of heat flash, that is when running the needle at or just over 'N' then stop the engine and watch the gauge, the needle often would then go up to the dot between N and H.
Didn't see this with the old transmitter, the needle was a lot more stiff then with the dot between C and N being where the thermostat opened.
Usefull thing a properly working transmitter, you know when to give the engine a fast idle for 20 seconds or so to stop a the heat build up.

Right next thing on the Avenger agenda is pull the prop-shaft out of it. That rumbling could be just the hardy-spicers and not the diff, the noise is still present when you freewheel or take the load off the axle. The UJ's are not loose but they might have become stiff.
I put a set of Woodhead big fat blue shockers in the back of the car, really likes to corner now and was not at all bad with the thinner shocks that were on it.

Here is a good bit of kit!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Talbot-Avenger-Historic-Rally-Car-/161049173076?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item257f475c54

Proper Order!

[oldschool]

Yeah the 'sealed for life' aka sealed for 'short' life UJ joints will get stiff and squeak from drying out.
My Alpine has grease nipple ones...:-)
Have you checked your thermostat Paddy, they often had 88C ones which are way too hot.
The cooler the Avenger motor the more power they make, have put a high flow 71C (160F) in mine, gauge sits on N and the heater still works fine.
Along with the electric fan, it probably has 5 more hp now!

[Paddy75]

Yeh I had a look at the 'stat its an 82degC one, looks free enough although as the engine was badly silted up which caused me an overheat on the maiden run I should pull the water pump out and make sure all is clean. I see a weep out of one of the core plugs too but is a very slow leak. Should have replaced that when I changed the downpipe but I was in Dublin at the time and just needed the car going without the no exhaust roar!

Thermostats used to be a thing you had to pay attention to then as build and technology went on you never had to think about them. Now however with engines so space age and high pressure electronic injectors, two stage fuel pumps (one in the tank and another on the engine) thermostat troubles are back! ''..the new Peugeot 308..does 80mpg..'' Ohhh you would need separate insurance for WHEN the fuel injection system gets one bad fill of diesel (highly likely around here BTW) and costs you thousands.
I seen the cousin taking two days to change an engine in a 2008 Vectra, one bad fill of diesel!

I believe some of the prop-shafts has staked UJ's so its a replace the lot job. If mine had this (a late MK1 - likely) it has been replaced sometime down the years with the standard circliped UJ's.

Test time is coming up and I need a set of brake reaction rod chassis side bushes Speedy Spares here we go. Ah well the guys at the test centre won't be complaining about the exhaust this time! A NoS QH exhaust which I liberally sprayed with exhaust manifold paint and Zinc spray on to. I was wondering if I was wise or not doing this, fretting about increasing back pressure, then about a month after the new exhaust fitted I noticed two small holes in the back box, the muffler by the tail-pipe, which the zinc has halted so good enough. Yes new straps and clamps too of course!

Another Talbot Sunbeam, no pictures!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Talbot-sunbeam-1-6-/171066228290?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item27d4577e42

Here is a worthwhile buy, not Spax or Woodhead bit going by their girth and steel sleeves, should be good.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-X-Pair-Rear-Shock-Absorbers-Talbot-Avenger-Sunbeam-/190862207749?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c70462b05

Was a good buy those Woodheads I got for ?18! Even had the top mountings on them. Should really change the offside front strut mount which has mushroomed - meh! The test guys think they know it all but rely on their shiny new computer machine thing to test the suspension hahahahaha.

[oldschool]

Easy to get a corroded block/frost plugs in Avengers as when you drain the radiator it doesn't drain the block, so flushing the system and adding inhibitor won't clean and protect it!
Just changed my water pump, drained the radiator first of course and then when I loosened the pump, water pissed out...lol
That's why they have that dinky little drain tap on the block I guess...lol
We had a case here in NZ of a low mileage Avenger being sold for top dollar and the new owner had to change the engine, as the block had corroded through to the oil gallery = water in the oil!
The Hillman one piece brake reaction bushes are a bit useless Paddy. It's a popular upgrade to put Chrysler 2 piece neoprene ones in...Speedy have them...but you also need to use a Chrysler mounting block, as the Chrysler bushes are wider than the Hillman ones.

[Paddy75]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-HILLMAN-AVENGER-GT-RARE-CAR-/190861366960?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c703956b0

Wow it went for over ?2k! Ahh the auld round headlamps charm!

I spoke to Sam at Speedy Spares yesterday and he reckoned the BRR chassis side mount is the same for S8 on and pre S8. The arm itself is different so I've ordered a set of the older bushes to get me through the test anyhow. The original rubber pre Series 8 type they have ran out of and they supply a poly' pattern replacement. I'll take a look at the suspension on the 1980 one David has to see whats the difference.

The block drain tap has a habit of seizing and the France engine (some MK2 1600 engines were made in France and has 'FRANCE' cast on the block instead of SB or LB) has a plain bolt in its place.

Rootes, from what I've read, were good or specialists at thin wall casting so I guess that's why their transmissions were a good bit further ahead than others of the time - and why every farmer had a Hunter. So the Avenger engine had the low skirt line thing making for a very rigid block. All good but the thin walls I suppose would be prone to water/oil holes I suppose.
Just change the coolant every 2 years if you haven't drained for whatever reason. Go light though on your antifreeze/water mix as I'm told the brass top radiators and water pumps get eaten by antifreeze.
I guess in sub-tropical New Zealand this is not so much of an issue!

I'll take a few pictures of the Avengers front drums to give ye all a laugh! Might as well as I'll have the front of it up on Monday to replace the BRR bushes.

Holy shamoley! Speedy Spares are quick! That was yesterday afternoon about 4pm I called them for these!

[Paddy75]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1975-sunbeam-rapier-h120-fastback-/251297735103?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a828321bf

A different type of Sunbeam, the Hunter with a fastback. Looked a bit like a big Plymouth and most of them had the Laycock overdrive. There are a good few of these Sunbeam Rapiers still about.

[oldschool]

What a dumb ass name for a car...worse than Edsel...no wonder Rootes went bust...dumb name for a car company too!
I know a rapier is some kind of sword, but it sounds too much like rapist...what were they thinking?!
I imagine Rootes Rapier owners got a few taunts back in the day!?

[Paddy75]

Hahaha yeh you are right Richard, the dawn rapist, Sunbeam Rapier! Rootes is a naff name for a car company too.
The Avenger launch brochure has an accessories page, 'Rootes' mudflaps, you just wouldn't!

With a decent set of batteries in the camera I could show different brochures for the MK1 Avenger if you guys want. ''..a new concept in British motoring..''
Aye, they started in the morning and did not look like they were styled by a particularaly nerdy boy-scout!



Ohh just too sexy for the British market, what was nearly the front of the GL models.
If they did stretch the budget to about 80 grand more and go with this for the high line models they'd have probably stuck a Singer badge on it, the Singer Stud?!!

Rootes mudguards!


Okay very good 'Rootes', you made a good handeling car. Shame about still fitting crossply tyres as standard! The spaceship hubcaps, well man had just landed on the moon I suppose. The pinstripes going up around the rear vent was soon dropped! As was the Rootes name, by October 1970 when the GT was launched the company was officially called Chrysler UK. By 1967 Rootes was a full subsidy of Chrysler, part owned by Chrysler years before '67 also.
Possibly uncle Walter was waiting to see how the public took to quite an American styled car before deciding to continue to market as Rootes or Chrysler. The Avenger was after all the first Chrysler led and funded project form Rootes Bros so some Hunter owners sneer at the Avenger as not being a proper Rootes car - yeh whatever, nerdy boy-scouts!
If a Rootes Blue-Peter badge holder is sneering at your Avenger as not being a Rootes car then just show him the next picture.

There are the same launch brochures with 'Hillman [penta] Chrysler UK' on the backpage, they just stuck a label over the Rootes print! Same thing happened in 1979, Talbot sticker over the Chrysler name.
The blue Hillman badge at the rear and side, blue grille badge plinth and the blue steering wheel motif is of course Chrysler blue.
So 'Hillman' lived longer than 'Rootes' - fair enough!



Watch for the sexist subliminal messaging, or rather grooming.
Buy an Avenger gets you a girl, buy a Super she gets her clothes off, buy a GL and she runs off with you!

[Paddy75]

I see the orange 4 door GT is back on Ebay.

There likely will be a good few bids on these.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CHROME-BUMPER-OVERRIDERS-WITH-RUBBER-GASKETS-HILLMAN-AVENGER-1970s-ROOTES-/271231530893?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f26a8b78d

There are cheaper overiders where the rubber doesn't go right to the top, the type listed here are as factory fitted.

''..four plastic parts I've no idea about..'' You don't need to be an engineering genius really!

BTW Richard, apart from the Sunbeam Raperist there was another...

hohohohoho!

Hard to believe these came out of the same showroom as a Hunter!


From this, April 1973 looks like someone was interested in a 1500GL.


Avenger price list and options.





Oh well the Avenger went through the test no bother today. Always a good idea to tighten up (new BRR bushes) the front suspension before the test, stops the guys hoking about the front until they find something expensive or bother to fix.
He had a good look at the headlamps and said ''..the old headlamps never align the way the computer likes..'' So he got down on his haunches and took a sideways look at the beams, all good!
That's the second year they didn't spot the blister on the rear brake flexi! Really should change that, all eggs in one basket with single cct brakes.

[oldschool]

I see side repeaters were an option too...never had them on our NZ ones, even the Chryslers...must have been a Euro/US rule as my overseas assembled 1970's Fiats have them.

[Paddy75]

Yeh a strange thing repeaters, most cars didn't have them although some British cars did. The Maxis and 1800's had them but other BL's didn't. A bit daft fitting them to the front of the wings instead of the door side of the wing.
Right enough come to think of it Italian cars always had them, French cars didn't. Some time in the 80's they all had them I guess some sort of Euro directive, about the same time as seatbelts had to be fitted to the back seats I suppose.
If you look at the options to upgrade the wheels to rostyles it cost more to upgrade the DL than the Super. So a Super got you radials as standard I guess, likewise a Super got sealed beam headlights.

1960's/70's badging was all about snobbery! Super mean't private sale, GL was paid for without dealer credit. You could have a sneer at a neighbours fleet DL or feel satisfied when seeing a car coming with obvious candle light plain tungsten bulbs! A bit sad really.

The Ford marketing geniuses, and they were very good at figuring popular trends, must have realized the whole Deluxe/Super/Grand Lux'e' thing was getting a bit smelly so they went for the more European sounding 1.6L instead of 1600 Super. Soon everybody else went for this badging style also.
As the 1980's approached was so-called sophistication taking over faux snobbery?

Sorry for going off in tangents! But this is a prime example of how Chrysler UK didn't just get the art of marketing as Ford did.
Trying to sell cars on snob appeal may have worked in the 1960's but when the economy was in the garbage can the winner was a thrusting go-getter, not a sneer or cad.
The C180 was a pretty good car, trying to sell them this way.... It was sold in communist Czechslovakia, where it was a Rolls-Royce, some animals are more equal than others after all, wonder what the reds would have made of this advertising!
Result? More Cortinas and Granadas sold.




Errr its the 1970's, not the 50's. A shooting break, the Rootes are showing!

[oldschool]

They didn't seem to worry too much about drinking and driving back then either...get sloshed at the picnic and hopefully find your way home in one piece?!
The marketing guys must have been drunk too...pitching a cheap car to the snobs was a road to nowhere!
Then on the other end of the scale they used references to that TV show 'The Good Life' in their print adverts?!
Tom and Barbara hardly had 2P to rub together, let alone buy a new Avenger?!
They completely left out the middle class in their advertising, no wonder Ford had a field day!
In a funny way Ford helped Chrysler sell Avengers...they gave up trying to market the Avenger sensibly and just face lifted it to look like a Mk4 Cortina...then sales took off!