Avengers for sale around the world...

[oldschool]

Might be a good idea to research the UK chassis plate codes to find out what was and wasn't factory fitted Paddy?
I've started doing that with the NZ codes and have gained lots of info...

http://www.avenger.co.nz/forum/index.php?topic=473.msg5443#msg5443

That 1300DL may have come from the factory with a vinyl roof...I've seen other Chrysler 1300's on eBay with a vinyl roof too.

In NZ we have two paint codes, one for the body and one for the roof, so easy to tell if a vinyl roof is factory fitted...
My Burgundy Super had a BY BY T2 paint and trim code = Burgundy Body, Burgundy Roof and Tan Super Upholstery.
My Alpine has a CA VP T4 paint and trim code = Caracas (Orange) Body, Vinyl Pearl Roof and Tan Alpine Upholstery.
All NZ Alpine/GLS models came with a vinyl roof standard.
I don't think we could get lower spec 1300/1600 models with a vinyl roof, haven't seen any??

Regarding the chrome roof guttering...always fitted to vinyl roof models to protect the vinyl edge glued in the gutter.
In NZ the 1300/1500 and 1600 Hillman manuals didn't get chrome guttering, it was reserved for the 'luxury' 1600 auto, Alpine and GLS models!

[azza1600]

Re roof guttering my 80 1.3gl had it my 78 1300 super had it and my 78 1600ls wagon had it, with extra door rubbers

[oldschool]

Looks like they fitted the chrome guttering on the Chrysler models to give them a bit more bling!!

[Paddy75]

The son of the man with the orange MK1 1600DL had the hots for the roof gutter strip on mine saying he couldn't find one anywhere. I must call over to him and get my magazines back sometime.

From what I've read the vinyl roof was an option on all models and fitted standard on GLS's and GT's. It apparently came standard on all models from about 1979 on when they got Talbot'ed, just about the time when vinyl roofing went out of fashon.
As for the roof strip that does seem strange, you'd think it was a Super trim level on standard fitment and I can see from various brochures its hit and miss.

'74 Avengers photographed in Brighton: DL - no, Super - Yes, GL - yes on yellow 2door, no on dark green 4door, GT, GLS & Estates - yes.
More car in your hands New Hillman Avenger (1970): White DL - Yes, Silver Super - no, Gold GL with the spaceship hubcaps - no.

Must have been due to the colour of the individual car - maybe.

Haha kinda reminds me of a diffrence on 1980's Sierras, the British built ones had a silver strip in the bumpers and door mouldings and the Belgian or German made ones had a red strip. That was a handy way of knowing how well, or not at all any rustproofing the car had! Unfortunatly the Dagenham Sierras and Escorts had a rot-box reputation, to the point where a local-ish Ford dealer here refused to sell a Dagenham dust-cart so Ford offered him a trim level up on his cars to try to persuade the man - didn't work. ''..I'm not selling people rust heaps, nobody would come back to me..''

[azza1600]

bling in plastic I think not haha, least my Superminx had stainless mouldings!

[Paddy75]

Check out the bling on this wagon, I read somewhere that the GLS trim level was discontinued for 1979 and returned after Talbot-ization as an Estate with chrome roof rails. Hahaha the pentastar on not-a-Chrysler. A neighbour of ours in the 1980's had a red 4door 1.6 GLS with Talbot and the star on its front, and his brother-in-law had the very same model, red 4door GLS with Chrysler and the star on front.
I was showing a young-fella an Avenger brochure yeaterday and he said ''...Hillman?..whats that...oh right Chrysler..'' I as usual gave the knee-jerk reaction, ''...they were not Chryslers!..there was an old munufacturer called Rootes..'' yadeyadeya.
Anyhow check out the roof-rails.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/talbot-hillman-avenger-1-6-gls-estate-/230852082837?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35bfdb3c95

[oldschool]

Nice bling on that wagon Paddy...I reckon the roof rack could hold 6 suitcases..." We're all going on a summer holiday...lol
And left and right chrome mirrors...okay just the left one survived....and looks like it had a rear wiper too...talk about luxury!!
With that V rego it would be a 1979 Chrysler Wagon...no Talbot or Chrysler badge on the bonnet to confirm?
The Talbots never had the T in a circle grill badge did they, all had the Chrysler pentastar?

[Paddy75]

Yeh all the Avengers after Talbot-ization still had the Chrysler pentastar in the grilles. I seen an '81 Avenger with the Talbot 'T' on its grille but that was someone taking a chisel to the grille and replacing the star with a T from a Samba or something, I'd hate to think it came off a Horizon - shudder!!
You can see however that on the 'Talbot Avenger' brochures on ebay that the grilles on them got an airbrush! No pentastar but on the actual car the star was still present.

On the Sunbeam the S2 with the bigger headlamps had the Talbot T on the grille.

The Avenger as we know had three diffrent make names, Hillman, Chrysler and Talbot. However also the name of the Company 'Rootes' was changed to 'Chrysler UK' around about mid-1970 so on my 'More car in your hands - The new Hillman Avenger' the accessories page has Rootes mud-flaps and the 'Hillman[pentastar]Rootes' print on the rear page has 'Hillman[pentastar]Chrysler UK' stuck over the old Rootes name.
The same thing happened in 1979 when a Talbot sticker they just stuck over the Chrysler UK name on showroom brochures!

Anyhow, if you look at the key on the yumping Avenger British Path? clip you see its plain metal, not the blue plastic cover with the pentastar and on a worksop manual I have it shows the ignition and trunk key not with the pentastar but the 'Rootes' name. Long story short, the first six months of Avenger production the cars were still called Rootes. The Chassis plate stated Rootes etc.

So Hunter owners, the Avenger WAS the last Rootes car, this is kinda important to me as I'd not be a great Chrysler fan. If someone calles my Avenger a Chrysler my reaction is similar as if someone called it a Marina!

Anyhow as for the demise of Talbot, well it was not the Avenger and Sunbeam that trashed Talbots reputation it was the PoS Simca based tinny crud, Horizon, Alpine, Solara (4door Alpine) and Tagora that forced Peugeot-Citroen to dump 'groupe Talbot' in the mid '80s when the Horizon was replaced with the Peugeot 309 (was to be called the Talbot Arizona but the car was really a Peugeot.)

I said it before and I'll say it again, Chrysler really f**** up when they decided to develop the Simca side of their Euro operations rather than the Rootes based cars.

Then PSA just dumped the Avenger, while the Morris Ital (even worse than the Marina) made it right up to 1984.

It would have been so easy to develop a MK3 Avenger, so easy. Bastards.

[oldschool]

Here's a very original 1250 DL on eBay...only done 13,000 mls!!
Someone's put extra badges on the front guards?!
No frills on the DL...rubber mats, no alternator, no disc brakes, no brake booster and no door pockets!


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hillman-Avenger-1250-Deluxe-/150906319655?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2322b7b327

[Paddy75]

Yeh seen that one, very good looking early one. The Hillman Avenger wing badge was fitted only on the passinger side wing for the first year or so of manufacture, probabbly to distinguish from a Ford Cortina at the time. The badge on the drivers side likely was an addition.
I see there has been a bit of resto done around the sills as it looks like a hand weld around the bottom middle pillar or it could have been someone wisely sealed it up to prevent the rot.

Pre-'73 engine upgrade all had Dynamos and inertia drive starters, except on the GT/GLS's, unless ordered.
Brake Servo assistance was not widely used on the UK MK1's, again only standard on the performance models unless ordered. It was thought that the brakes were powerfull enough without the need for assistance.

Anyhow that 1970 is likely worth what the seller is asking for it and for a project here we have:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HILLMAN-AVENGER-1974-1600-SUPER-/130772035783?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item1e729ee8c7

''..has round instruments unlike most with the strip speedo..'' Yes because its a round-badge Super, Nothing wrong with the strip dashboards they look as good as the round clocks type. Probabbly even a little neater around the top. The rarest one is the 1970-3 Super strip dash with the silver/grey insert - I found one of those and sent it to a man building a Tiger.

[Paddy75]

The chopped Avenger 'Sunbeam Talbot' Talbot Sunbeam, this one I think is not as rusty as it would seem.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunbeam-Talbot-/180978979195?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2a2330117b

Note the pentastar on the steeringwheel boss! Thats a series 1 Sunbeam with the same headlamps as a MK1 Avenger. The wheel trims look like they are from a MK2 Avenger GLS I can't remember if the Sunbeam GLS had the same trims. An uncle in law of mine said he used to ger 110mph out of a white 1300cc Sunbeam he had!
Oh its a 1600 Automatic, that means the engine will likely be very good.
The Sunbeam BTW was not a hatchback, they were a liftback as the rear screen was hinged for access to the boot/trunk like the Imp was so there are jokes about an Avenger and an Imp got it on and gave birth to a Sunbeam.

Mind you thats a better joke than the 'Emma Peel' wisecracks I'm getting tired of hearing!

[Paddy75]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/hillman-avenger-1600-super-auto-1975-/230857481299?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35c02d9c53

Its back, that 1600 auto could well be the steal of the year, looks damn clean and has tinted glass which does make them more comfortable to drive.

Okay here is another Paddy meandering tangent.
Was the Avenger the best driving yoke of the time? I mean the designed and made in England 1970's cars.
I had a discussion yesterday with an Escort nut and he didn't know about Avengers, sure he heard of Sunbeams.
Coil sprung all round, good torquey engines and not as big and lumpy/thirsty as Cortinas.

The Escort crossflow, way overrated, no torque, flooding, uncomfortable. Sure they are the biz for going sideways and you don't use a go-kart to cruse about the place after all.

Vivas or Kadettes/Chevettes, three bearing lumpy engine - crap. Good job once you drop a pinto into them but you then have a heavy front end.

BL - Aye right, good 1950's cars. Soup kitchen factories and the closest thing the UK got to communisim.

The more I think about it the more I am convinced, we drive the best yin'!

Oh yes we do!
Bastard PSA, fekkers should'a took the Avenger forward, sure there was a load of Avengers sold in France too.

[gt]

nice colour that one paddy and a rare tinted windowed car!
has to be worth a punt but if i was buying it the 5spd box would have to be a must in the boot, the autos are not nice in my opinion...sko

[Paddy75]

It looks like its not selling... I know a guy who has the hots for a MK1 Avenger. I'm not fussed on automatics, being so hilly and twisting roads around here they get annoying. Also I'm left-handed so I've really no excuse with being handy with the shifter!
From what I remember though if you wanted a small/medium automatic the Avenger was a good idea. Most of them (post Oct'73) were 4 speed and I remember a very worn out MK2 automatic Avenger in the garage in 1990 and while the car was done, the gears still were not slipping. Seen a few auto Avengers about back in the day.

I used to be 'control zone' ballast in a blue with a white vinyl roof automatic (Top Hat!) Avenger that my Aunts b/f (later husband) had, we loved that car! So I would be sitting in it while she went to the shops, in those days you couldn't park a car in a town centre 'control zone' unless there was someone left in the car. I used to encourage her b/f to make it go as fast as it could and him being a young mechanic and rally driver happily obliged, watching the speedo needle like a hawk and counting the gears!
''..how does an automatic work?''  ''..torque converter...hydraulic oil..''
Damn but I wish there were more Avengers that survived. in the Early-mid '80's the dump was full of them.
Oh well, that reminds me, SEVERE rustproofing session coming up for mine, acetone then finnegans up the door pillars the whole lot.
Was the same in Grandas silver 1600 Super - I guess it was a Super, it had round clocks with square lights and I was fascinated by the steering wheel and binnacle. Oh I got the Avenger bug before I even went to school!

[Paddy75]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/keith190576/m.html?hash=item3a7a9262f1&item=251164517105&pt=Automobiles_UK&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2562

Awww cute pics, that looks like it could be outta Watership Down or something!
''..rare Hillman Avenger Super Estate..''
Round headlamps on a Super, indeed it is a rare one, the last MK1 Supers got all the GL and bits and priced as a Super. Reg'd 2/July/76 it is one of the rare Supers with round headlamps. I wonder is that what the guy means by rare? Or does he just mean Avengers are rare?
Anyhow nice estate wagon for someone.