Any tips or tricks to stop her starving for fuel on icy mornings?

[kriemhild]

It is COLD here in the mornings and the poor old Vengie is cold too. I don't have a garage. I get her going in the morning, leave her idling for ages- long enough at least to warm all the frost off the windows with the heater going inside.

Then when she sets off she jumps and bounces and bollocks all over the place even if I pull the choke while she's going down the road. I've been told that it's starving for fuel and the problem disappears after awhile. I have to start my commute on a 80 km/h so I am putting my foot down rather.

Any bits of car I could cover with a sack at night or something? Or do I just drive gently? LOL I'm hopeless- I don't know, but you fellows are all clever clogs.

[avenga]

Set the air cleaner for "Winter mode"

On the air cleaner you will see a intake which runs off the front and sort of points forward towards the radiator (it is the big plastic pipe which runs off the front on the air cleaner, sort of looks like a elephants trunk in the shot below), you will see an S for summer mode on the top, with a screwdriver, loosen the hose clamp holding the intake on then spin it around so it is pointing towards the engine with the W pointing up.

That will then get the nice hot air from around the engine, should make it run much better.

Here is a shot of an engine in Summer mode.



and here is an engine in Winter mode. See how the intake is curved around towards the engine so it gets all the heat coming off the exhaust.

[oldschool]

Nothing to do with the fuel...if it was 'starving for fuel' it would do it all the time wouldn't it!!
It probably needs new spark plugs and get rid of the inferior Lucas ignition points/condensor system and fit electronic ignition, which I sell for just $100. That fixed all my cars cold morning farting/jumping/missing problems!
Also keep your air cleaner on the Summer setting...it took the poms many years to finally work out that engines run better on cold dense air, not heated air...which is why modern cars all have cold air intakes or intercoolers.
While your at it...check your air cleaner element hasn't filled up with oil from the breather?
You can chuck the air cleaner element away and run 'naked' if you're only driving on sealed roads.

[JoKer]

I spy a 1500 (my image LOL)

um could the Carb actually need seeing to? ie oil level/diaphragm etc?

[avenga]

Also keep your air cleaner on the Summer setting...it took the poms many years to finally work out that engines run better on cold dense air, not heated air...which is why modern cars all have cold air intakes or intercoolers.

Not entirely true. many new cars actually have manifold heating systems which will switch on when it is too cold. Most modern EFI engine can handle cold temperatures and do run better with the colder more dense air, especially turbos. But the Avenger is not one of them. If the air temperature gets too cold it causes the fuel to fall out of suspension, and you know how important that is to an Avenger engine from the Weber vs Dellorto debate. For an Avenger engine to run well it must have fine fuel droplet moving at a high velocity and be suspended in the air.

This from Wikipedia (if you believe their lies)

Heated air intake systems operate on the principle of increasing the temperature of the air, the fuel will more effectively stay in suspension in the air rather than falling out of suspension and forming droplets on the floor of the manifold. Warm air from the outside of an exhaust manifold is drawn up into the air cleaner to increase the air temperature as quickly as possible after the engine starts.

My Charger had a valve on the exhaust which would close if it was too cold, this would then heat up a heat exchanger on the bottom of the plenum chamber and heat the fuel. They did this instead of using a choke and it did work well. Since then I have changed to headers so I had to get a carb with an electric choke.

Most new cars do it electronically with a small flap that either takes air for the cold air intake or and other intake down by the exhaust, this is very common on diesel which is more effected by the cold. Most modern EFI systems have direct head injection so they don't need to worry about fuel atomization but there are still cars out there (mostly single throttle body injected engines) that use heated intake systems.

[oldschool]

Also from the same Wikipedia article....

Disadvantages
While heating the inlet air provides a benefit by improving homogeneity of the inlet air and fuel, it has the disadvantage of reducing air density, which reduces the volumetric efficiency of the engine. The installation of a heated air intake system is hence beneficial to engine emissions but decreases maximum available power.

Removal
Where heated air intake air cleaner assemblies are fitted to engines, it is a common perception that they reduce maximum engine power and it is consequently common for them to be removed and a more open air cleaner assembly fitted in their place. This has the benefit of a marginal increase in power with the disadvantage of significantly increased emissions and, in some jurisdictions, making the vehicle illegal.

[avenga]

Yeah it decreases high end performance but it will help heaps in the low end on cold mornings.

I used to switch my air cleaner to winter mode back in the day and I remember it making a big difference. I would flip it over to winter for the drive to work and then back to summer on the way home.

And on cold mornings my dellortos are terrible, with no choke or intake heater it runs like rubbish till the engine is warmed up.

[Paddy75]

I found that a new inlet manifold cut down on the jerks and jumps a fair amount then going back to the SU better again. As Richard says the running of the Avenger engine likes the fluffy clouds of gas I guess - only a guess - this is due to the lack of squish in the combustion chambers. Here is the old manifold, you see how the seams were beginning to split and the walls smoothed out over the years.

The exhaust heat transfer chamber means you don't need the choke for very long with just a wee boost needed when climbing a hill with the engine cold/half warm. The 1300 will take longer to warm up I've noticed compared to the 1600's I've seen.
You say it took the poms a while to figure, the paddies figured out this, ''..rip that fekin' intake transfer thing away the f*** from them..'' The choke on a little longer is all you need to smooth out winter running.
In fact if you want to find the lean spot when tuning the carbie if you swing the intake to the winter position...



The picture does not show so well but there is a noticeably smooth wall as well as the seams corroding. The new manifold was on Ebay and it was cheap so it got bought.

[oldschool]

That exhaust heat transfer chamber is needed on Avengers Paddy, otherwise the intake manifold/carb doesn't get hot enough to atomise the fuel properly and about 3 hp is lost, according to David Vizard. Back in the day people would throw away the exhaust manifold and fit extractors, thinking they would get more power, but ended up with less...lol
More power can be gained using extractors, but the carbs have to be modified as per David's specs listed on the forum.

I read somewhere that engines run best on cold air and hot fuel and have seen a heat exchanger advertised that connects into the top radiator hose to heat the fuel on the way to the carb...meant to save 10% or more on fuel use, particularly in diesels. The main reason Richard's Dellortos are a pain on cold mornings is the cold air going into cold carbs, resulting in lousy atomisation. So when you've got a cold carb in the morning, warm air from the winter setting will compensate and make for smoother running...then later in the day change the air cleaner back to the summer setting as Richard did!

[Paddy75]

I mean't to say the automatic summer/winter heated air mix thing on the airbox intake. Sure the exhaust heat chamber thing in the middle of the manifold is important. Likely why the critics were impressed with the Avengers short time choke needed characteristic.

Begad but I've wayyyy too much time on my hands this last couple of months, back to work soon by the looks of things, Switzerland.

Cold? Oh right its winter down under, that's not cold! Was talking to the sister in Auckland recently - radiation woman - a radiographer (x-rays) she said that's nice winters you guys have! Mild in the north island and many people take a flight to the south for a bit of skiing. Here the winters are cold and damp, windy not much snow though, and last March we got an unusual wee reminder of how close we are to the north pole - 6-8 foot of snow! That was a bastard, heard the birds singing and the gutters creaking - great winter is on the way out, then a big fall of snow!
She also spotted an Avenger, ''..seen one of those cars you have, had different lights..'' she spied a MK2!

I found that the Stromberg CD3 (I had anyway) made the 1300 a buckaroo when cold.

Ebayed these plugs, Unipart heat grade N8 equivalent, a fine tip on them, lets see what that does with the strong electronic spark.

[avenga]

As Richard says the running of the Avenger engine likes the fluffy clouds of gas I guess - only a guess - this is due to the lack of squish in the combustion chambers.

Yup, that is exactly the reason. David Vizard did heaps of research on this in his many articles.

That exhaust heat transfer chamber is needed on Avengers Paddy, otherwise the intake manifold/carb doesn't get hot enough to atomise the fuel properly and about 3 hp is lost, according to David Vizard. Back in the day people would throw away the exhaust manifold and fit extractors, thinking they would get more power, but ended up with less...lol
More power can be gained using extractors, but the carbs have to be modified as per David's specs listed on the forum.

Yup, the charger is the same. It has a heat exchanger between the exhaust and inlet manifolds. You are only better off doing the extractors if you are also going to do the carbs and manifold like the dellortos on my Avenger and the 4 barrel holley on my Charger.

The main reason Richard's Dellortos are a pain on cold mornings is the cold air going into cold carbs, resulting in lousy atomisation.

Yes, cold carbs and fuel is the worst. I remember trying to start my old race car on winter mornings when I had a hillclimb. I would have to leave the race car out on the trailer overnight then drive a couple of hours down to the coromandel. by this stage it was about 8am on a freezing winters morning, the fuel and carbs were totally frozen from being left out on the trailer. it was such a mission to get started.

It is much better now that I keep my car in the garage, it doesn't get anywhere near as cold so I can start it pretty good in the garage then let it warm up a bit.

[Paddy75]

David Vizard. An article by himself in Practical Motorist July 1975. Avengers get their own back, how to mod up a new 1600GT. Some very good tips here, I've no doubt you guys know all about them but just in case there is something new here.
Reccomends modifying the fixed jet on the biased CD3 to aid fuel break up. hmmm who do I know with a fine lathe....

''..Its amazing how many people haven't cottoned on to what a good performer the Avenger is..''
Its amazing how bad Chrysler were at marketing!













You are on the ball Richard! Give the standard thermostat a squeeze.

The three parts of the CDS jet assembly
An Allegro with a Maxi engine, that rad looks more like a heater matrix, no wonder they overheated!
Oh I see why the CDS was leaking even though I changed the bowl gasket.

As ever if its for emissions its s**** this is the pre emission fixed needle Stromberg CDS jet.

With the jet turned up as far as it goes. There is a taper already but its very shallow. I suppose David Vizards jet mod only applies to the fixed jet CD3.


The MK1 & Series 7 rod linked throttle. This CDS is needle'd for a 1500.

PS the guys in the what looks like Hockey helmets are Hurlers, the ball is mid air most of the time.
As the old joke-saying goes:
As Irish as a broken skull on a Hurling pitch!

Hurling is strong in places that are flat. Appeals also to townies because you can be a right flash show off.
This is whats simply known as football. The Gaelic Football catch and kick, Aussie rules is an evolved version. Tends to be more popular in hilly places and not so appealing to the more urban because it requires a lot of stamina.
I know Kiwis are sports mad and sometimes NZ is described as ''..not so much a country as a large sports centre...'' There are smartass comments about everywhere.


A Hurley (the stick) is the root of an Ash tree. Back in the day about the late Bronze age Clans would batter the f*** outta each other with this very efficient club. It is said the origins of Gaelic Football came from the Clans kicking about the head of the defeated Chieftan.
''.. The great Gaels of Ireland..of whom the gods decided to make mad...for all their wars are merry...and all their songs are sad..''

These two games are the most popular in Ireland with Soccer coming in 4th or 5th behind Rugby. I personally have no respect for either national Soccer squads in this land. One is the England B team rip-off* and the other is a sectarian jeering party.

*Likewise the Irish Cricket squad, Australia B team. Hey, sure if it gets sportsmen a run out then fair enough! Having one Irish great-grandparent gets you a paddy passport.

[Paddy75]

Vizard is the Wizard!

He stresses N6YC spark plugs are to be used. Here they are after about 5 miles of hot summers day driving.


Slight flatting in 3rd gear acceleration so I've richened the mixture a bit and I'll see what the hills are like before ritchening more. But even as slightly lean they are going this colour and there are deposits sticking to the insulator.
The what looks like white here is a slight yellow deposit on the earth electrode.

N6YC not N9 or N7 - N-SIX.

Fair play to you Avenga & Richard, as you guys said pay attention to what David Vizard said. I paid more attention to that article after I posted it.

Originally I was driving on N9's - plugs only ever went a sorta purplish red cakey colour with little on the insulator. Much futtering about with the carbie got me two conditions.
1. Seem'd to be lean as a lot of flatting on hills.
2. Richened up until no more flatting but noticeable fuel smell from the exhaust, okay sure pretty good performance!

Went to N7's. Better plug colour but still seemed to have to tune rich to get rid of the flatting. No or very little deposit on the insulator.

Then paid attention to an article (that I have had for over a year! - duhduhduh) and MrV is adamant N6 is the plug. Ebay - cheap - arrived this morning.
I reset the mixture and set by the lifting pin - slight increase in speed. Went up to get a bit of business taken care of went then to the town which involves a steep hill for about 3/4 a mile or so. No flatting even though mixture is where I know it to be lean. Noticed a bit of flatting in 3rd as I say.

Came home this is the colour of the N6's. Have richened a little, will see what happens, I will squeeze the 'stat also as MrV said. True when the needle is just below the 'N' it seems to run nicer.

I would say N6 plugs also might help your cold running Kiera (sorry if I've got your name wrong!)

Yep! Just the right plugs needed.

For advice just read an article written by a guy who was seriously into them and knew what he was talking about.
As for my uncle-in-law Ford 'expert' well he always was known for being a gobshite!

I have also ordered the 5BB (as stated for Avenger 1250cc) needle for the CDS fixed needle adjustable jet Stromberg. Lets see...