Pinking like mad!

[kriemhild]

So... I'm a female dillweed that doesn't know the brightest bit of butt when it comes to her beloved Avenger.

It's pinking like a politician on stage. I use fancy-pants high octane fuel and always have done. Is that the trouble?

Or could it be the dizzie chucking a tanty as it does look a bit worn. Despite my having replaced the rocker cover gasket it looks like it needs replacing again. I mean- I don't know squat- but could the oil be getting into places where it cause problems in and around where the spark plugs bury themselves in their work?

The plugs ain't black- looking quite good actually. But I do get a whiff of petrol when I put my foot down.
I just had the carbie seen to a fellow who does all the old beaters around here. Afore this I had black plugs... could he had gotten summat wrong?

[oldschool]

There's 3 main causes of pinking...

1. Wrong fuel
2. Wrong timing
3. Worn distributor

1. You're using the right fuel, so that's not the problem.

2. The ignition timing needs to be checked with a timing light, set it to 10 deg BTDC at idle with the vacuum advance tube disconnected, then reconnect it. The 3rd mark down the crankshaft pulley is 10 deg > 0 (TDC) 5 then 10

3. A worn dizzy will advance the spark too quickly (even with the correct timing) causing pinking.

I have new timing lights and Avenger electronic ignition dizzys for sale, PM me if interested?

[Paddy75]

Unless your engine is badly coked its likely the timing.

A strobe light only is a start point.

With the engine warm slacken the bolt clamping the dizzy. With the engine running - and do NOT do this from the front leaning over the radiator - from the side leaning over the battery.
Turn the dizzy clockwise, you will hear the engine speed rise, turn it back and forth to familiarize yourself with the change of engine speed.
At the point when turning counter-clockwise, when the engine speed first decreaces, leave it at that and half tighten the bolt.

On the road, on a bit of a slope drive in top gear about 25-30mph, window down and boot the pedal, listen for pinking. If there is none - turn the dizzy a little clockwise.
If it pinks - turn the dizzy a little counter.

When you have just no pinking in top at low speed you are bang on for whatever condition the engine is in.
Then, and only then do you tweak the carbie idle mixture.
Assuming you have a Stromberg, lift the piston slightly and adjust so the engine speed slightly decreaces. According to a mechanic of old I was talking to the Stroms are best this way.

If you are carefull you can even do this without getting bitten from the high voltage!

[oldschool]

Good idea Paddy...had to back off the timing in my Chrysler, as my son's too tight to pay for premium petrol, just wants to use regular...now it's even more gutless than usual...lol

[Paddy75]

Ahh the auld voodoo methods of setting the timing. Most of the mechanics have forgotten how to do the 'just durn the dizzy back 'till the revs drop' then top gear on a slope method.

If the boy thinks regular unleaded is gonna save him a few bucks he is in for a nasty suprize. The Avenger will just use more fuel on the open road.

BTW take a look at this

http://s1098.photobucket.com/user/Paddy075/library/

Reckon the AC Delco clocks were a better idea? The later Smiths type likely was a cost-cutting thing.

PS Kriemhild, if you wanna try to get the crap outta the cylinders/piston crowns/cumbustion chamber.
Before you set the timing.
With the engine hot. Take out all four plugs. Squirt in a good dose of WD40 and then diesel. Leave for 15 minutes.
Crank the engine with the plugs still out. Refit the plugs, start, run at fast idle and feed redex fuel treatment slowly into the carburettor.
If there is an excess of soot in there that'll git rid of enough of it to let you get the timing better.

Next day we will show you a real redneck cheapo way of grinding in badly pitted exhaust valve seats. Without having to go to the expense of recutting the seats!
Involves a masonry nail, grease and sand.

Its great speaking to older mechanics, the things they figured out was mighty!

Voodoo mechanics!

[kriemhild]

hey guys thanks so much! I think if I go for a whole new electronic dizzy it SHOULD solve the problems? The dizzy does have a bit of a wobble in it...

as for my carb- that's next on the list if an electronic dizzy doesn't solve this pinking. PM me if you can sell me one : D and THANKS! (R)

[Paddy75]

Assuming you have fed a bit of redex through the engine etc it might be worth your while looking out for the more silly things that could cause pinking.

If - to get the car through an emissions test - the timing was retarded to pass a test and then left retarded for a while likely the combustion chambers would coke up, upon normalizing the timing you'd likely get a lot of pinking.
Maybe someone cut the spring on the vacuum advance (how!?) God knows why but the very odd time you see this. Or the spring has collapsed but the rubber is still okay causing the advance to shoot away forward.
Dissconnect the vac advance pipe from the carbie side and clean the connector, give it a suck and there should be noticeable resistance and it should hold the vacuum you are creating. Take a look at the dizzy with the cap off and see if the plate moves. It shouldn't move until you have caused a fair amount of vacuum.

If you cannot cause a vacuum the capsule is banjaxed which means there is no vacuum/throttle advance and maybe the car was timed by ear (and usually the vac is left connected when doing this) causing an overadvance. If so, time by ear as previously described and as where the speed falls just go a nick further back.
Remember: When you rotate 'away' from the vac capsule you are retarding which is anti-clockwise in the case of an Avenger.

Is there a leak around the inlet manifold or carburettor that caused the timing to be set over-advanced if it was set by ear? With the engine idling spray a bit of easy start around the joints (carefull not to let the spray be sucked into the breather pipe, this will cause a false alarm) and see if you get an increase in speed.

Maybe the thermostat was fitted the wrong way around because of overheating due to whatever reason sometimes people do this. If so while the engine may seem to be warming up the coolant is not properly pressurized and in turn can cause a coke-up and pinking.

Might be worth your while checking the silly things and when you get the pinking and all seems fine then its something daft.
The electronic upgrade will give you a stronger spark and if you stretch to an upgraded coil when you upgrade, all the better too.
The electronic upgrade has also the advantage of keeping the timing where you set it. Points naturally wear and the effect is to retard the timing.

Could be something on the daft side of things, it happens. As for sideways movement of the rotor arm there will be a little. The arm should have a spring-ing effect when you turn it - in one direction only - and there should be no seizing or sticking when you release. Few drops of oil down the spindle and on the bottom of the plate around where the vacuum advance arm connects to the base plate is always good maintenance.

If you reckon the dizzy is disaster'd then you don't necessarily need to go to the expense of ordering the exact matching distributor. A Mini or other Leyland of the era fits the dizzy drive and hole, its just the base clamp that a wee bit different, swap the clamp from your old one, while someone useful replaces the bob-weight springs or whatever the problem was.

Colombo! ''..just one more thing ma'am..''

With the dizzy cap off. Try to turn the points and condenser assembly with your hand clockwise it should move against the spring in the vacuum capsule. If it feels loose or sticky then, assuming the vac capsule is grand, take the base plate to bits and clean all dirt and rust from where you can. Oil it up and put all back together.
Upon re-assembly set the points to about 12thou then turn the dizzy drive counter-clockwise and check the resistance you get as the points open feels the same for all four positions. If so leave at 12thou (gives you a stronger spark and if damp starting is a problem just hold a bit of tissue against the points, should then start.)

If when you first try to turn the points/condenser clockwise and its hard, if then turning counter causes movement the baseplate and/or vac capsule is done for. Naturally it would be very easy to set overadvanced.

Ahh getting old bangers going for the fields as a teen! I remember one time a buddie had a Marina Van which wouldn't start, I got it started, next it wouldn't rev too well, diesel used in the dashpot instead of oil, went for a while then ran rough. Futtered about, gave the dizzy's plate a frisk shake, vroom vroom until we bashed it one time too often into a stone ditch, other old car, tree, telephone pole or the suspension gave up after a jump.
Avengers were good bash bangers, you could dukes of hazard them all day although the steering usually ended up very wonky! The Marinas 'flew' a bit better, stayed level in the air, but when they hit re-entry the 3rd or 4th time, bang/crunch/thump.
Cortinas had a mighty good hanbrake and you could really cook the engine after a bust radiator no problem but they went through the fuel! Used to mix 1/3rd red diesel on them and dose the intake with easy start to get them going.
Do not use easy start BTW, its like a drug to the engine!