1500/1600

[oldschool]

BTW Jared, your RPM vs Speed doesn't match up, are you sure they were running the car in top gear? i.e direct drive?

We did my dyno run in 4th and I was doing 120.2MPH @ 6526RPM

So running a car in a lower gear will produce higher hp/torque figures at the wheels for the same rpm compared to running in top gear?
If so, then to compare cars they both need to be in top gear and use the same wheels/tyres and diff ratio or does the dyno computer make an adjustment for that?

[oldschool]

I always wondered why my Chrysler 1600 is less powerful than a Hillman 1600...thought it was because the Chrysler's are heavier...but that's not the reason!
Looking in the workshop manual...the Chrysler 1600's have a mild cam like the original Hillman 1250/1500 single carb.
The Hillman 1500 twin carb got a hot cam and the same cam was used when they upgraded to the Hillman 1600 twin carb.
At that time the Hillman 1600 single carb also got a hotter cam, but the 1300 cam remained the same as the 1250.
When the single carb Chrysler 1600 came out they went back to a mild cam...maybe for reduced emissions?!
So if you've got a 1300 and want to upgrade to a 1600...fit a Hillman motor, not a Chrysler one or put a Hillman cam in a Chrysler motor!!

[oldschool]

If you want to upgrade your gutless Chrysler Avenger with a Hillman spec camshaft...there's one on eBay here....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271176291305?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

But don't buy it on eBay...they're cheaper from Speedy Spares...LOL

[the_customizer_91]

reading through this has got my imagination spinning like mad about what to do to my little Caroline.

I have an alpine engine that originally had twin carbs so does this have a hot cam? i have twin DHLA 40 Delortos to screw on to it, will a mild cam from kelfords make a worthy difference?
does any one have good dimensions for a bit of porting and polishing? I'd love to get over 100bhp out of it even up to 130 if its not too detrimental.

plus any tips, or tricks of the trade, of how i can get a standard engine running really well with out taking apart and on a small budget?

[avenga]

Are you talking about horsepower at the wheels or at the flywheel? Because 100-130hp at the wheels (120-160hp at the flywheel) is a full on race prepped engine, my old rally car was in that region and it had big holden pistons, massive lumpy cam and huge ports.

around the 80-90hp at the wheels (100-120hp at the flywheel) in more like the max you are going to get out of a modified street engine.

My 1500 makes 86.8hp at the wheels (joker's rally car makes around the same), my engine was fully rebuilt with 1600 pistons, ported head, balanced internals, Kelford cam, DHLA's, MSD ignition, electric fan and fuel pump. The engine was originally from a '73 Alpine so it had the big port dual spring 'S' Head and dual timing chain etc.

Here is a clip of it on the dyno.  1975 Hillman Avenger 1500 Dyno Run

[oldschool]

Big horsepower and a small budget are incompatible...ask Richard!
The Alpine motor already has a GT cam, so no need to change it unless you're making big $$ changes to the rest of the engine.
Read David Vizards tips in the Technical Section...he has a lot of low cost ways of getting more power...for example running a cooler thermostat makes more HP.
Also fitting an electric fan and electronic ignition with a sports coil perks them up too...I have electronic ignition for $100

[the_customizer_91]

Do you have the specs and measurements for a good ported head? some thing i could hand over to a machinst and get them to machine the head?

[the_customizer_91]

Having 100-120 bhp at the flywheel would be great.
Will a lightened flywheel help out?
what about bigger valves?
where do get those extractors from earlier in the topic?
also "oldschool" were you the one that suggested i put the carb from a rover v8 on my standard engine to give a bit of extra grunt?

[oldschool]

Avengers already have 30mm ports, so don't port it unless you want an 8000rpm screamer unsuitable for road use!
A better option is to fit bigger Tiger valves which are usually available on eBay.
The exhaust manifold twin outlet can be ported out to match the twin exhaust pipe, as it's a few mm smaller diameter than the pipe.
The Alpine motor already has a lightened flywheel and can be lightened further if required...see David Vizards articles.
DO NOT remove the exhaust manifold and fit extractors, while keeping the standard inlet manifold, otherwise you'll lose 2 or 3 HP!
The exhaust manifold is bolted to the inlet manifold and heats it to improve fuel atomisation and motor power.
Yes, you can use a 1.75" carb...which Hillman actually fitted in the 1976-77 Alpines to solve problems from tuning the twin carbs.
To get 100HP or more like Richard, you'll need to ditch the standard carbs, inlet, exhaust manifolds and fit twin Dellotos with extractors and a 2" exhaust system.

[avenga]

I will talk to my mechanic and see if I can get you any head specs.

The cam I use in in my build thread.

The extractors are from Bygone autos in Beachhaven.

You can flow the heads and it makes a huge difference. You don't need to make the ports any bigger, if you do you will kill the bottom end but you can do a lot of work inside the head to make it flow much better, again, read the David Vizard articles. He goes in to heaps of details on how to flow the head.

Avoid going too crazy unless you are going to do everything, like oldschool said, if you are keeping the original inlet manifold then don't use extractors.

Lightened flywheels make it harder to drive on the road, as Ross said, the Alpine has a lighter flywheel, any lighter than that then you start to have trouble as a street car.

You should look at it in stages.

Stage 1: bigger SU carb, Alpine cam, standard exhaust, sports coil, electronic ignition. Maybe a 5-10hp increase

Stage 2: like my 1500, around 80-90rwhp (100-120 at the flywheel) side draft dellortos, electronic ignition + MSD, extractors, new exhaust system, balanced internals, flowed and port matched head. hot cam. electric fuel pump and fan.

Stage 3: 120-140rwhp race motor, as above plus, big port head, competition valve springs, larger aftermarket pistons. lightened internals, lightened flywheel. aggressive lumpy cam. shaved block and head.

Stage 4: 160+rwhp fully spec'd race engine, as above but even more headwork, maybe drysump, brazil 1800 engine, possibly stroked to 2000cc. Other crazy stuff.

I would class stage 1 and 2 as street cars with 3 and 4 being purely for the race track.

[the_customizer_91]

yea i have two stages im going to do it in. right now i just want to get it going to drive her to Auckland and use her.
When i get up ill start getting parts to rebuild the engine to what i want.
the rebuild stage will use my delortos and extractors.
With the internals, Im seeing on Ebay some .050" over size pistons i would like to get. who some one that can balance the bottom end nicely?

wheres i good place to get MSD ignition?
what is the difference between and normal electronic set up and having MSD? ive seen them about but i dont know anything about them.

[avenga]

wheres i good place to get MSD ignition?
what is the difference between and normal electronic set up and having MSD? ive seen them about but i dont know anything about them.

http://www.v8parts.co.nz/

They have a sale on MSD, only $399 for a MSD 6AL.

MSD stands for Multi Spark Discharge. It is a capacitive discharge unit that lets to spark plugs fire more than once per cycle, up to 3 time or for 20 degrees of duration. This also lets you run a higher 45,000 volt coil as the MSD sends over 500v to the coil instead of the normal 12v. You still use the electronic ignition as a trigger for the MSD but the MSD provides a much bigger and more frequent spark.

I live in Auckland also so you should pop over sometime and I will take you for a drive in my Avenger so you can see the difference the carbs etc makes.

[the_customizer_91]

sweetness sounds good.

I'll bring over my Avenger when I'm in Auckland.

what would be the best spark plugs for a standard set up?