1500/1600

[DanFindy]

Well lads, as ye may know my car is a 70' 1500DL, now the engine isint wonderfull bit rough about the bottom end, thrust washers i would say but anyway...
Ive got my hands on a series 7 1600, engine supposed to be good wont have heard it running told it needs a ballast resistor so il try put er running before i do anything.

What i want is a bit more pep and reliability, thought about all the fancy engine swap jobs but i would like to keep it fairly old skool

The sum total of what i want to do is fit a cam and a set of twin 40s
Would i be better rebuild the 1500 engine and cam and carb it? or rebuild the 1600 and do the same
Ive been told by a few that the 1500 was a quicker engine with a shorter stroke?

What would ye do if ye were in my boat and had the 2 engines available

All suggestions gratefully recieved !

[JoKer]

ballast thing is only for the ignition side of things, if you keep the same ignition/dizzy/coil you shouldn't need it

Rich has a 1500 cam /twins on the side and got slightly less HP on dyno compared to my 1600 / cam and twins (almost identical setup bar the MSD)

1500 be High comp so probably better on street vs the 1600 which needs to be driven high up in the rev range, bogs down low etc

I would go 1500 based on my VERY limited experience

[oldschool]

The ballast resistor is used by the electronic ignition fitted to the Chrysler Avenger series 7 onwards, which also needs the transistor box on the inner guard to work. Otherwise just use your old ignition dizzy.
Here's the performance specs...
1500 single carb: 63 hp @ 5000 rpm, 80 ft lb torque @ 3000 rpm
1600 single carb: 69 hp @ 5000 rpm, 87 ft lb torque @ 3000 rpm
1500 twin carb: 77 hp @ 5600 rpm, 81 ft lb torque @ 3750 rpm
1600 twin carb: 80 hp @ 5500 rpm, 86 ft lb torque at 3400 rpm
1500 Tiger: 93 hp @ 6100 rpm, 90 ft lb torque @ 4500 rpm

I'd suggest using the 1600 motor with a mild cam and twin CD carbs (with their twin exhaust manifold) which will be more peppy while still being economical.
If you go the for a hot cam and twin weber's/dellorto's to get 93 hp like a Tiger, be prepared for a large increase in fuel consumption!!

[avenga]

BTW those factory HP numbers are total lies. They are taken at the flywheel and most probably with all the accessories like water pump and alternator removed.

I just got my hot 1500 dyno'd at 86.8HP at the wheels and it would blow away a Tiger anyday. I am only about 3 HP below Jokers race engine now, I was running a bit lean at top end so I am going to try some different jets then I think I will be able to make more power out of my 1500 than Jokers 1600 race engine.

Hey Ross, would you be keen to put one of your stock Avengers on the Dyno (I will pay for the dyno) so we can have a baseline to see how much extra our mods are getting. I know when Joker did his old 1600 he got about 45HP at the wheels, I think that would be about right, then a Alpine would get maybe 55HP at the wheels.

BTW here is a video of my 1500 on the Dyno last week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=984EqYJx0Uw

[JoKer]

I have cam specs somewhere

Orange Line 30+ y/o tired poked/burnt-out Donk
Green Fresh rebuilt 1600 from the Hutt Credit to Hunted/Andrew for source with Solexe's
Blue same fresh rebuilt 1600 with Twin Dellorto 40's from avenga and tuned By Keith Stewart www.DynoPro.co.nz

as ya can see nothing below 3500-5000rpm

[oldschool]

I got the hp and torque figures from automobile-catalog.com and they're DIN Net figures, which I understand are taken at the flywheel with accessories and exhaust attached.
They also listed the SAE Gross hp figures which are around 10 hp higher, also from the flywheel but no accessories or exhaust attached I guess.
Yes it would be great to put my Alpine on the dyno when it's back on the road.

[avenga]

And you lose around 25% by the time you get through the trans, diff and tyres.

So at the wheels they would roughly be

1500 single carb: 47 hp
1600 single carb: 51 hp
1500 twin carb: 57 hp
1600 twin carb: 60 hp
1500 Tiger: 70 hp

Just so you can compare apple with apple, other wise people think our modified Avengers are much less powerful than they are.

I will probably be putting my Avenger back on the Dyno when I get my new jets fitted so you should pop over then and we will sneak you on the dyno, the dyno is just up the road from you in Henderson.

[avenga]

BTW Jared, your RPM vs Speed doesn't match up, are you sure they were running the car in top gear? i.e direct drive?

We did my dyno run in 4th and I was doing 120.2MPH @ 6526RPM

[JoKer]

3rd gear IIRC, could have been 2nd

edit : have had speedo- over 200kph in 4th!

[oldschool]

Sometime in the new year Rich...will give me a chance to tweak up the hp over the holidays!

[DanFindy]

The ballast resistor is used by the electronic ignition fitted to the Chrysler Avenger series 7 onwards, which also needs the transistor box on the inner guard to work. Otherwise just use your old ignition dizzy.
Here's the performance specs...
1500 single carb: 63 hp @ 5000 rpm, 80 ft lb torque @ 3000 rpm
1600 single carb: 69 hp @ 5000 rpm, 87 ft lb torque @ 3000 rpm
1500 twin carb: 77 hp @ 5600 rpm, 81 ft lb torque @ 3750 rpm
1600 twin carb: 80 hp @ 5500 rpm, 86 ft lb torque at 3400 rpm
1500 Tiger: 93 hp @ 6100 rpm, 90 ft lb torque @ 4500 rpm

I'd suggest using the 1600 motor with a mild cam and twin CD carbs (with their twin exhaust manifold) which will be more peppy while still being economical.
If you go the for a hot cam and twin weber's/dellorto's to get 93 hp like a Tiger, be prepared for a large increase in fuel consumption!!

Fuel economy wouldnt bother me a lot as it will oly be a Sunday driver, excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by CD carbs and twin exhaust manifold? I was thinking myself about a mild fast road cam and twin 40 dellortos, not lookin huge power and i want it to sound nice !!!

[avenga]

The Twin CD carbs also came with a different twin exhaust manifold with 2 heating pads which would heat both carbs.

It sounds like you want something like mine, mine has a mild fast road cam and twin 40 dellortos. Plus a bit of head work and other bits. It is not hard to get them going faster.

Plus twin dellortos look and sound so cool.

Here is a shot of my engine setup



and here is some in car of it so you can hear a little of what it sounds like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EojldShQkQ

Note: that video was from before I did my 5 speed and a few other mods so it is faster now and sound so much better in real life.

[DanFindy]

Indeed fella thats what im aspring to, ive watched that vid about 1000 times and smile every time,
My plan for an engine is,
Port and polish head, mild cam, new bottom end bearings, new gaskets seals and the like, and not much more to be honest, i dont want or need a rocket just something that sounds well and goes a bit livelier than a 1500 std.
Goin to put coil overs up front and a strut brace on top, tie rod underneath, new back shocks/springs and lowering blocks, interior standard apart from maybe a retro fit centre console with rev clock (and a few switches that do nothing but look cool!

Tell me whats the story with fuelling the dellortos? are u running an electric pump?

[JoKer]

I am yup, out of an OLD Subaru, 3psi steady

[avenga]

Yup, that engine work sounds like it will give you a really strong little engine, chuck on some extractors and the twin 40's and you will be set.

Avengers have coils at the back so no need for lowering blocks, just buy some shorter stiffer shocks and springs and you will be away laughing. doing the front end helps heaps also, when done properly they handle like a true race car.

I also run an electric fuel pump to my Dellortos, 3psi is perfect.