Heater deletion

[JoKer]

We all know our enemy rust never sleeps and a Puddle at your feet often means the core of the warmth device is no longer water tight!

time to remove those ugly hoses on top of the motor and I suggest a loop to continue the circuit from the Pump to the thermostat housing

HOWEVER

did notice a couple of things..



are they blocked off altogether?

at OS nat'snoticed Kiera's are similar and there seems to be no circuit from bottom of rad to top?

curious as doesnt seem right... is this normal OR am I concerned for no good reason..

pump outlet is also a bit of a prick as its slightly larger than the standard hose... searching now for the wee elbow hose that sorts this with no kinks...

I ran a huge loop cable tied to the carbs

[avenga]

I just blocked mine off. As you can see in the photo they aren't linked in anyway.

I did the one day one of my race car engine build because the race head I brought had already been blocked off so I figured if it was good enough for the last guy.

If you look at a workshop manual it has the waterflow and the water goes from the bottom of the radiator to the water pump then exits out the back of the water pump up through the block to the head then out the front of the head in to the top of the radiator for the cycle to repeat.

If you look at how the heater flows the water comes from the head (hot) then it is meant to go via the heater before returning down to the waterpump to continue the cycle.

So any water coming out the heater port on the head is hot and if you are hooking that back up to the waterpump then you are pumping hot water back into the engine and bypassing the radiator.

Looking at the flow diagram the thermostat may cause problems because it is designed to direct water out the heater system to bypass the radiator so this is the only time the heater is used to complete the cycle so you may need to run the car without a thermostat or modify it in such a way that it still circulates enough water when closed.

[JoKer]

ahhhhhhhhhh yea I had a feeling the block may be crucial with its holyness!

may explain some over heating issues I have with no thermostat!

[avenga]

Yeah I think if you had no thermostat and a looped heater then it would bypass a lot of hot water straight from the head back in the the waterpump skipping the radiator.

[JoKer]

seems so simple now!

RTFM haha

[hunted]

I think you should be running it lopped rather than blocked off. (ie as if it was going through the heater but its not). If you block it off then the water pump is pushing water and it has nowhere to go.

If you block it off altogether I think you will be loosing a lot of the circulation ability of the cooling system, and that fucks shit up.

Just loop it and you cant go wrong. All you are loosing is that extra bit of cooling you get when running the heater.

[hunted]

upon futher thought, the heater loop not actually be part of the main flow path, just an additional route, so blocking it off wont do any harm.

will need to think more/look at my water pump and motor when I get home

[avenga]

upon futher thought, the heater loop not actually be part of the main flow path, just an additional route, so blocking it off wont do any harm.

Yes, that is correct. the main flow path is in from the bottom of the radiator via the waterpump through the block up to the head then exits via the top of the head to the radiator. The heater is just an additional route from the top of the head to the waterpump. I think also if you removed the heater and just looped it you are removing a lot of resistance making more water flow via the non-cooled loop. but yeah Beaver would know the most about water flow etc being a damn engineer and all.

I can take a picture of the flow diagram and post it up if you like.

[hunted]

right, thought that may have been the case. Where does the heater return line go to?

as for looping it, its a small enough pipe that it wont much difference resistance wise to traveling through the block etc So I wouldnt be worried about water going through the loop and bypassing the radiator. The pipe is small enought that it cant hold much water, so the rest has to go somehwere (ie through the main flow path via the radiator)

but long story short, block that bitch off

[avenga]

Heater return line goes to the waterpump. It takes hot water from the head and returns it to the waterpump.

but as Beaver said it shouldn't be a problem looping it because a stock Avenger has that bypass joiner in the heater lines which just loops the water when the heater isn't on anyway (you can see it on my 75)

[JoKer]

short return pipe which I imagine ia a bitch to install but nice and tidy

[oldschool]

Yes, that's a tidy bypass hose. I can't take the credit as it was there when I bought the car...lol
I did make one from an old Avenger heater hose elbow to put on my son's car when his heater wet its pants.
It's worth noting that even cars without a heater, still have a bypass hose.
That's because the hose allows the water flow to 'bypass' the radiator when the thermostat is closed, allowing the motor to warm up quickly and the water pump to work efficiently.

Essentially the heater circuit is a long bypass hose with a small radiator installed.
You'll notice the 'Z' pipe in the Avenger heater hose circuit (as seen on Richard's engine) which is to allow the bypass flow to continue when the heater temperature control is set to 'cold', closing the heater tap behind the firewall under the dash.
Most cars these days don't have a heater tap, as they're prone to leaking. Instead hot water flows through the heater constantly and flaps are used to direct cold and hot air as required.

So for the cooling system to work properly, it needs a bypass hose and a thermostat installed, as the manufacturer intended. It's a false economy to remove them as that will result in long warm up times and colder running, accelerating engine wear. If a car is overheating with a functioning thermostat installed and it improves when its removed, that's a sign of an inefficient cooling system, caused by a blocked radiator, faulty cap, rusty water, slipping belt, etc.

[hunted]

ah good point Ross re: warming up when thermostst is shut. however Joker isnt running a thermostat, so blocking off the heater loop wont affect anything. In a daily driven car, yes, having a heater loop is the best option.

[JoKer]

Thermostat goin back in at earliest convenience, as pointed out only helps if something is actually busted - I did get a wee bypass hose with that new motor so might donate some skin and try and fit it

car will be sitting in high rev's 90% of the time as power is between 5 and 7.5k rpm's

glad I asked the question! as the hot water continually recirculating may be cause os some over heating issues! (gauge continually in the red but cool under the bonnet)

[avenga]

I used to push my race engine harder than yours and it was always cool with the block offs on.

There is a sweet spot for Avenger engine which is 70