Quote from: oldschool on June 26, 2012, 10:39:29 AM
Hi and welcome to the forum!
That wagon doesn't look too bad, pretty straight...how is the rust?
In NZ the Chrysler models had some basic rustproofing like plastic sill protectors.
My 1979 GLS hardly has any rust...but no salt here!
The wagon is the rarest Avenger model in NZ, maybe more common in the UK, have seen lots of them on eBay lately.
It looks better in the picture, dash has a few cracks, there's a couple of holes in the top channel of the rear hatch opening, and the timing cover part that is behind the water pump is corroded to the point that there's no stub for the rad pipe to fix to, it needs the socket clips for the headlamps, that the adjuster fits into, but are unobtanium,
but its still in pretty solid condition, and very rare even here in the UK,
service parts seem easy to find, but I am finding it difficult to track down the timing cover, I may have to replace the engine and box with something newer!
Hi Ian if you are really stuck for a timing cover I should be able to get one off a field-find 1972 1250cc. BTW is your MK2 points or electronic. The earlier MK2 still had points and the rod linked throttle. Its a GLS? What carbie is on it? I believe there was a four stud carb mount for the high performance models to hold a Stromberg CD175.
Good luck with your restoration.
Its electronic ignition,
not sure what carb is fitted, but it is a single stromberg, I will sort out a picture tommorrow,
thanks for the offer, much appreciated, but something should turn up this side of the world, if not then the engine and box won't be wasted ;)
Paddy is over in Ireland, so I am sure he would be able to post you a timing cover fairly cheaply off his field-find 1250.
Also in the UK try Speedyspares. They have a lot of Avenger parts http://www.speedyspares.co.uk/
Yes Speedy Spares are very helpfull and even if the part you need is not on their list you can ask them as they have a lot of bits that are not listed. There is also SOPS also (google it or check them out via ASOC) who specialize in Sunbeam parts and of course a timing cover for a Sunbeam is the same as an Avenger.
Is that, hang on I'll look at mine...Right the timing cover is one piece and the cold return from the rad has rotted away. I'd guess they still can be bought.
You have a Series 8 on Avenger by the looks of things (12 fuse-box on the inner gaurd) so that means it'll have the 1'' longer TCA's so you don't get tramlining on radial tyres.
The link between the steering column and the rack, make sure you oil it untill all the crap is out of it then grease it. I'm told they have a habit of collecting the shit up from the road untill they sieze or wear out. It is a pricey wee part to get, although I was lucky as I got a spare one for ?5, but that'll not happen again!
Likewise rip out the steering rack and put it up with the full lock out as if to turn right and let all the old oil seep out, refill with a 1/4 Pint of EP 80/90.
As for my GLS carbie theory it must have only been the Series 5 & 6 that had the four stud manifold for the CD1.75''
Maybe the Sunbeam had the 1.75 on the GLS version?!
Anyhow you'll get the resto done more easily than you perhaps think Ian. The bulkhead lowers look sound so I can assume the floor pan is solid - that was the real Ave/beam bug!
Oh I forgot, you might be able to settle a rolling debate about the diff gearing on Estate Wagon Avengers. According to Haynes:
7 Series (MK2) on, The third from last number of the 'Vehicle Service number' on the Chassis identification plate indicates the rear axle ratio:
1 & 2 = 4.37:1 - Used for 1250cc & early 1300cc (also found in 1.0 Sunbeams)
3 & 4 = 4.11:1 - Used for 1300GT & S5&6 1300cc
5 & 6 = 3.89:1 - Used for 1500cc & early 1600cc, probabbly also MK2 1300cc
7 & 8 = 3.70:1 - Used for S6? on 1600cc
9 & 0 = 3.54:1 - Used on MK2 1600cc
So assuming the Wagons got a lower ratio, I'm betting yours is '5 or 6' on that third from last Vehicle service code number!
Oldschool, JoKer and avenga, any bets!
Most of the late model wagons I scrapped were 4.11:1, while the late model sedans were 3.70:1.
I use a 4.11:1 estate diff in my race car and a 3.70:1 in my road car.
Quote from: Paddy75 on June 29, 2012, 04:51:50 AM
Is that, hang on I'll look at mine...Right the timing cover is one piece and the cold return from the rad has rotted away. I'd guess they still can be bought.
You have a Series 8 on Avenger by the looks of things (12 fuse-box on the inner gaurd) so that means it'll have the 1'' longer TCA's so you don't get tramlining on radial tyres.
The link between the steering column and the rack, make sure you oil it untill all the crap is out of it then grease it. I'm told they have a habit of collecting the shit up from the road untill they sieze or wear out. It is a pricey wee part to get, although I was lucky as I got a spare one for ?5, but that'll not happen again!
Likewise rip out the steering rack and put it up with the full lock out as if to turn right and let all the old oil seep out, refill with a 1/4 Pint of EP 80/90.
As for my GLS carbie theory it must have only been the Series 5 & 6 that had the four stud manifold for the CD1.75''
Maybe the Sunbeam had the 1.75 on the GLS version?!
Anyhow you'll get the resto done more easily than you perhaps think Ian. The bulkhead lowers look sound so I can assume the floor pan is solid - that was the real Ave/beam bug!
The bodywork is pretty solid, Its had some welding work done to the bottom of the front inner wings, and the wings and front valance, and will need further work to the rear wheel arches, but hopefully that will be minor, main rust is the top rain channel of the rear hatch, that has let water into the car, and the rear window needs removed and the cause of it leaking investigated
it needs a new dash, the seats recovered and a lot of other work done on the interior not sure what you mean about the steering, I thought that there was a rubber disc that connected the column to the rack, its had a new rack, as the old one had rusted up due to the car being abandoned in a garden for several years and the rubber boots being perished,
I will get back to you on the axle ratio number, tommorrow!
I'm betting it's a 4:11 diff same as the the NZ ones.
Paddy's talking about the metal steering universal joint connected to the bottom of the steering column at one end and the rubber disc at the other.
They can run dry and bind, making the steering stiff....thought I had a steering rack problem in my GLS, was just about to pull it out..then thought to check the steering universal...sure enough it was dry, so copious amounts of CRC and oil later she was as good as new.
Yeah that rain channel is a problem on the wagons, not enough fall and the water just sits in there causing rust...a major job to fix if the hinges have rusted out!
I understand the 1.75" carb was only used on the last of the 1976-77 Hillman GLS Avengers, all the Chrysler models had the 1.5".
You guys are probabbly right, a 4:11 which means Ian will see 3,000rpm@45mph as in my S5 1300. I was just thinking that maybe the later 1600 saloon had 3.54 on the LS & GL then a 3.70 on the GLS for acceleration. So if I assume the wagons were one step down, a GLS Series 8 on would be at 3.89:1.
My Chrysler '76 brochure states the 1600cc (S6 MK1) had the 3.70:1 and I notice too an article on the 1976 1600 Super, which were the last Supers before the MK2 and had the the round headlights, they had noticed a higher top speed and better economy than on the 1974 1600 they had tested.
The '74 Avengers photographed in Brighton' states a 3.89:1 ratio for the 1600, this being a S4 then S5 got a steeper static timing curve, they upped the 1300cc to 4.11:1.
Looking at the orange 1600DL Avenger I came accross whis is a S5 (service#, Sunbeam type window handles and concave front struts) it had 'T5xx' in the Service code which apparently means HC and 3:89:1.
Anyhow its seen that there were a lot of changes made even to the MK1 Avengers throughout its production. This is unusual for cars of the era, usually they started bad and got worse! It can be tricky getting the correct strut inserts for them with all the changes. S5 (09/'74 on build) got concave struts then also the strut for a drum brake hub is diffrent again.
For example, 4-door 1500GT had 75bhp, the 1500GLS had 78bhp, the diffrence being the holset fan the GLS and 2-door 1600 GT's got.
Morris Marina owners need not have to think about such details!
3rd to last number on the service number is a 7. So 3.70:1?
Same as in my '75 super. Should pull around 3,500 @ 100KPH
Well according to Haynes, 7 or 8 is 3.70:1. the 'T7QH' in the number looks like a MK1 Service code, T being HC 1600cc. the 'L888..' means series 8?
Anyhow kinda good to know, well even if we are not sure!
If I found an Avenger or sunbeam axle loose then sure just count the rotations. I see in the cw the ratio is stamped on them. On the Chassis/VIN # the ..L167.. I think means Linwood, 16th week of 1977?
Anyway more importantly Ian seems to be making good progress and I should be getting the field-find pulled out of the field next weekend to strip clean. I was talking to a rally car building uncle-in-law about it who had told me a fellow with a bad bad reputation is after it.
Avenger hunting continues...
Next step is the breakers yards, I'm hoping to get, ''..take a look at the back there is a load of gearboxes and axles, dunno what they are for..''
Here is to hope!
Wow, awesome progress on removing the rust. Can't wait to see it finished.
I am in the middle of doing a restore on my '75 and I know all the work that goes in to repairing the rust. It is great that you are doing it all your self, I am just paying a panel beater to do mine, so it will cost an arm and a leg.
Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
Yes, you are correct about that Z shaped metal pipe. It is to allow the water to recirculate while the heater is off, and it does go where those copper pipes are.
Your radiator looks really good. Much better than any of mine.
That bottom pipe looks a mess. Good to see you are cleaning it all out. It is really good to give the whole cooling system a flush every now and then so it doesn't get that clogged.
Quote from: avenga on July 06, 2012, 11:19:58 PM
Yes, you are correct about that Z shaped metal pipe. It is to allow the water to recirculate while the heater is off, and it does go where those copper pipes are.
Your radiator looks really good. Much better than any of mine.
That bottom pipe looks a mess. Good to see you are cleaning it all out. It is really good to give the whole cooling system a flush every now and then so it doesn't get that clogged.
if I can get it back together with a new timing cover, I will flush the system using a couple of dishwasher tablets!
as for the radiator, I have been offered a new one, just need to make certain that it is the correct one, with the hole to fit the fan switch, If not, then i will probably have the original re cored, it looks far better in the pictures than in real life!
I am not sure that this should be posted here, maybe a moderator could move the non introduction part to the correct part of the forum?
Well, just as I thought things were going well, I am thrown a curve ball, one of the torsion bars that hold the rear door up has snapped,
don't know why, when I refitted the door, it seemed to work fine then whilst I was trying to adjust the door, it just snapped,
its unlikely that I can repair, as its under tension even when the door is shut, looks like I may have to replace the torsion bars with gas struts of some description,
and that is going to delay the re fitting of the back window,
this also led me onto another problem, the adjuster at the bottom of the back door was seized,
clearly it has been seized for some time, using a impact driver produced a few holes and distortion in the panel! :o
pictures to follow ;)
just checking the wheel bolts, seems they are M12x1.25, seems strange that they are metric, I would have expected imperial, still it makes it easy to get a set off alloy wheel bolts to fit it!
Today the boot catch area is getting a little skim of filler!
if the timing cover problem isn't resolved soon, then I am going to plan B :-*
Yes they're metric Ian...just to be different from Ford...lol
In NZ we had metric threads on the parts that were made here, like the seats.
Couldn't get that timing cover from Paddy?
Quote from: oldschool on July 09, 2012, 09:11:04 PM
Yes they're metric Ian...just to be different from Ford...lol
In NZ we had metric threads on the parts that were made here, like the seats.
Couldn't get that timing cover from Paddy?
Possibly, I would be interested, but it would be a shame to break a perfectly good engine, just to provide mine with the timing cover, was kind of hoping that one from a broken engine would have turned up!
your on the asoc arent you? someone on there will have one and i think speedy spares have them listed on there parts list
Quote from: avengertiger on July 10, 2012, 06:15:07 PM
your on the asoc arent you? someone on there will have one and i think speedy spares have them listed on there parts list
Sort of, I had to wait until pay day to afford the joining fee of ?24, strangely you can join online, but then have to wait an age for the process to give you a member number, and you have no means of even viewing the forum until you have that number,
all seems a bit to restrictive to me, a bit to unwelcoming, I paid on the 6th and I am still waiting for the member number, I am a member of the A40 owners and viva owners, and they both have a forum where part access is not dependant on membership, and full access was granted within a day, even though I had yet to receive my membership number,
Speedyspares don't have the timing cover listed, just the gaskets!
Edit: speedyspares seem to have one, so I have ordered it today!
Great news on finding the timing cover at speedyspares!!
The alternator seems like it scrubed up nicely. Alternators have always been the bain of my life, always seem to pack up on me. I am fitting an alternator off a diesel when I finish my restore, so I can use the vacuum pump on the alternator to provide vacuum for my new brake setup.
I know how much of a pain rust can be and how it seems like the more you fix, the more there is hiding underneath it. I am just finishing the rust repairs on my resto.
great stuff i had a feeling speedys had them,yes the asoc can be a bit difficult to get into,it was harder before they got paypal,and you had to pay by cheque,postal order etc harder from overseas.
the forum is excellent though and the acsess to parts unrivalled lot of knowledge on there also.
it can take a while to feel part of things i am a member now 20 yrs probably on and off and still feel a little on the outside,get out to the national day and put faces to names and they are good guys though.
keep going with the resto
Wow that new front cover looks great.
Rust repairs look like they are coming along nicely.
Good call on that fan. I had my mechanical fan break and kill my radiator. I put in a slim line electric one.
She did not too much suffer from any rust but there is some work!!
I admire the realized work and good luck the continuation of the restoration!
Hang in there Ian...you're getting there! Scarlett had a striped out interior and gearbox in the boot when I bought her...didn't even know if she went...and with a lot of TLC she came up trumps!
I've found a slim 9" electric fan fits in nicely under the top hose on the rear of the radiator...in the same place as the original one. The Avenger only has a small radiator, so best not to put the electric fan in front as it can restrict the air flow, which is why Chrysler put them on the rear from the factory....just wire it to make sure it sucks through the radiator...not blows into it...lol
I put mine in the front and it works fine.
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab274/avenga76/1975%20avenger/P1010176.jpg)
It does reduce the swept area of the radiator though Richard, which means you may have to use the fan while highway driving, instead of just around town in stop start traffic.
It stays cool as on the motorway. I have the light in the cabin which tells me when my fan comes on and it only comes on when I am stuck in traffic.
I know it does reduce the airflow but there is still plenty of airflow, even at 50kph around town it doesn't need the fan on.
Far out does that say France on the side of your block, A local guy told me he had a Avenger with that, never saw it, just took his word
Quote from: avenga on July 26, 2012, 10:48:25 AM
It stays cool as on the motorway. I have the light in the cabin which tells me when my fan comes on and it only comes on when I am stuck in traffic.
I know it does reduce the airflow but there is still plenty of airflow, even at 50kph around town it doesn't need the fan on.
what size fan is that?
I have ordered a 9 inch fan, still thinking of putting it in the front, cooling wont be an issue where I live, but still not decided!
Quote from: azza1600 on July 26, 2012, 07:43:02 PM
Far out does that say France on the side of your block, A local guy told me he had a Avenger with that, never saw it, just took his word
Yes it does say France on the side of the block, rather surprised me, I thought they were built in Britain!
Well done Ian. I see you got a timing cover I am going to ask the farmer to move the scrapper in his field to get the engine/box and axle out of it.
Last thing I've done on mine is by-pass the headlamp switch with a couple of relays and feed the lights direct from the battery to save the switch contacts from burning out. The headlamps are now very strong although the old Lucas alternator is struggling. H4 halogens, probabbly not as much of an issue on a MK2 as they had halogens fitted although if you relay the lamps direct from the battery you'd likely get a bit more light.
Quote from: Paddy75 on July 27, 2012, 12:44:49 AM
Well done Ian. I see you got a timing cover I am going to ask the farmer to move the scrapper in his field to get the engine/box and axle out of it.
Last thing I've done on mine is by-pass the headlamp switch with a couple of relays and feed the lights direct from the battery to save the switch contacts from burning out. The headlamps are now very strong although the old Lucas alternator is struggling. H4 halogens, probabbly not as much of an issue on a MK2 as they had halogens fitted although if you relay the lamps direct from the battery you'd likely get a bit more light.
That's a good idea, it already has H4 headlamps and a 40amp alternator fitted, but probably worth doing, even if its just to save wear on the switch!
Yep a relay helps make the electrics last longer, mounts on the r/h inner guard just above the wiring loom, so that when you cut the wires they don't need to be extended, just eyes fitted. The power wire is short, directly from the starter solenoid.
Quote from: oldschool on July 27, 2012, 10:45:26 AM
Yep a relay helps make the electrics last longer, mounts on the r/h inner guard just above the wiring loom, so that when you cut the wires they don't need to be extended, just eyes fitted. The power wire is short, directly from the starter solenoid.
that looks rather neat, can't seem to find that relay in the UK!
Edit
I have bought one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280594802876?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2564wt_1397
and one of these to put it in
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250732273917?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_522wt_1067
can you take a shot from further back, so I can understand where to tap into the loom!
well managed to get it running and that in itself has thrown up some problems,
the clutch seems stuck on, tried starting up in gear and pushing the brake, whilst the clutch is held in, but it doesn't want to separate, is there any tricks that work well on avengers? I don't really want to remove the gearbox, its strange as it worked ok when I bought it a couple of months ago.
one of the core plugs is leaking, not one that i replaced, but the front top one, that's strange also, as it looked like new, not much of a problem, as I bought the set, and its the front top one, so easy to get at,
anyhow the engine runs well, the brakes seem better than the tyres which seem worse than the clutch ;D
any ideas on the clutch?
clutch is now free, left it in disgust for an our, then started her up in first again, tried the handbrake whist revving it, all of a sudden its revving and not going anywhere, wondered what had happened, then remembered that I still had the clutch in! ;D
Nice work on the rust repairs and exhaust.
The electric fan looks similar to the one I use. Should keep it nice and cool. Have you got it hooked up to a thermostat control?
Great job getting it back on the road after all this time. It wouldn't have been very old when it was taken off the road in 1985.
Quote from: avenga on August 24, 2012, 11:58:55 PM
Nice work on the rust repairs and exhaust.
The electric fan looks similar to the one I use. Should keep it nice and cool. Have you got it hooked up to a thermostat control?
Great job getting it back on the road after all this time. It wouldn't have been very old when it was taken off the road in 1985.
The car was originally fitted with an electric fan, there is a rad switch at the bottom of the radiator, it seems to work fine, but it needs a few bushes and the clutch done, and the rear brakes looked at, before it can go for a roadworthy test.
skint at the moment, so it might be a while!
well managed to get the clutch and the bushes done, but as always there is more, in freeing of the rear brakes, it has become evident that the rear wheel bearings need replaced, and I have decided to replace all the brake pipes, with Kunifer, and the rear flexible hose,and new rear wheel cylinders as well, which I have purchased, but I am struggling to find the time to fit, as I am progressing work on my vauxhall viva as well, hopefully by the spring I can have the avenger back on the road!
well despite no posts, I have done some work on the wagon,
sorted out the lights, a few dodgy earths was the problem, replaced the fog lights as one was broken, though they are not a legal requirement pre 80's,
then replaced the grumbling rear wheel bearings, fitted new wheel cylinders and all the brake pipes with kunifer, replaced the handbrake cables, fitted the battery securely,
whilst the wagon was on the lift, notices that the steering was a bit notchy, this turns out to be the strut top mounts, struggling to get my hands on a new set of those,
going to replace the strut inserts, and the bellows when I manage to locate new top mounts, speedyspares have them listed, but have non in stock!
hopefully the last hurdle before getting the car MOT'd, though I still need to replace the 80's spark plugs, rotor arm and cap and leads!